May 03, 2020 14 min read


Tom Capone, Matt Pincus, Matt Warnke in the van of suffering

DREW THOMAS: Me and Richie had conceived of doing Into Another starting in my junior year and I think I was pretty much trying to keep it away from Bold. I had aspirations to do something outside of hardcore, to go further. I wanted to make music my life, ya know? That's what I really wanted to do. I remember I made a conscious effort to not tell Matt because I was worried about how he would take it. But then I was faced with the ’89 tour, and at the end of it I had stuff that I needed to do. I wanted to move down to New York to start this thing with Richie. I realized that I had to leave before the tour was over in order to do this, so I decided that Fender’s was going to be my last show, and so did Tim—he was going to fly back with me after that show. So I took Matt to the parking lot at John Jay, and we were in his car and I really did not want to do this, but I eventually told him that basically the Fender’s show was my last one with Bold, that’s it, I’m done. He was just staring at me listening, and he seemed pretty bummed out about it and it was a really heavy conversation. It was hard for me to say all this because we had done this band since like eighth grade, but I told him I had this plan with Richie, and we were going to do this other band and I didn't know what it was going to be but I didn't want to play hardcore anymore. Matt wasn't really saying anything, just kind of looking at me. He said to me, “Well honestly Drew, I’m not really surprised. I always thought you were a bit of an opportunist.” 

 MATT WARNKE: I remember that conversation, it was in the John Jay parking lot and it was one of those situations where I didn’t have any choice. It was his decision. He had made up his mind: he was leaving the band and was going on to do Into Another. You’re just handed these things in life, and that’s it. What are you going to do with it? Perhaps the band could have continued without Drew, and in retrospect it’s one of those things in life where you could have either chosen path A or chosen path B. At the time it just wouldn’t have been Bold without Drew in it. That was ultimately the overriding decision, even if we could have gone on with a different drummer like Sammy or someone else. What’s bittersweet was that the 7” and theLooking Back record weren't even released at that point, and part of me wonders what might have been. 

 TIM BROOKS: The band ending was never really discussed, at least with me. It felt like it was open-ended and we might have picked things back up, but Drew left to move to NYC to start Into Another with Richie and you could tell he had one foot out the door. You could notice the cracks on tour—we kind of paired off. That’s when I noticed Matt starting to withdraw. I was good friends with Porcell, we had the same diet, both really into spiritual stuff. He wasn't really into Krishna at that point, but growing up my mom was a part of City Yoga and I would visit the ashram as a kid. My mom was a vegetarian, so we had a lot of the same ideas and we paired up on tour and would wake up early and work out. Drew and Tom paired up—Tom was getting more into the occult, reading Aleister Crowley'sDiary of a Drug Fiend. At night, he would rub oils on his forehead and hope for a succubus. We were all kind of moving in different directions.  We played with Gorilla Biscuits for the first half of the tour and then Judge for the second half, and you could tell Porcell was in between things. Youth of Today was playing their last show on this tour. Matt and I were about to start college. There was just a sense of closure and transition with things ending and new things happening.

BOLD one sheet 1989

DREW THOMAS: I think they got upset about me joining Youth of Today. I'm not sure exactly how Tim felt, but Matt and I were really tight and had started this stuff together. Even before the Crippled Youth stuff, we were working on things together in different incarnations and writing lyrics together. I think we were about half and half as far as the lyrics go. Maybe he wrote a little bit more than I did, but I think it was pretty evenly divided up. I did “Nailed to the X” and he did “Talk is Cheap,” it was like that. Sometimes I would come in with really crappy cheesy lyrics and he would change them up, like “Talk is Cheap” which was originally called "Treason.” I don't think Matt was super enthusiastic about me playing with Youth of Today because it took away from us as a unit, and I was very sensitive about that. I could have gone and played for Youth of Today, but I was in high school and they were about to take off because ofBreak Down the Walls. I would have really loved to have done that. I wish I could have. I was almost annoyed that Sammy was the one who wound up with a brand new drum kit courtesy of Caroline Records and I got a rock. I quit Youth of Today because they really wanted to start doing a lot of stuff and also I felt that Bold wanted me. I think even every time I played with them it caused some friction. It’s funny, we were recently making a joke about it... I think I was downstairs with Tim and Matt after the St. Vitus show or somewhere after a recent rehearsal, and I mentioned some Youth of Today show I played with AF at CB's or something and I said, “Oh yeah, you guys weren't there.”

 MATT WARNKE: In the period it took forSpeak Out to be released, we weren't really writing new stuff, it was more just playing shows with what we had and anticipating the release. 

 TOM CAPONE: I got a call from Matt asking me to join the band based on him hearing Beyond. Before I was in Bold, I had seen them live but I didn’t know them well as people. I was closer  with YOT and GB, but Bold were upstate. When I first joined the band, I still lived in Long Island with my parents and was just graduating high school. It was always a hike to go to practice in Katonah. Most of the time, I would sleep over Matt's house and we would do two days in a row. My impression of the band was that they were very nice and all different. Drew was an energetic rocker and was psyched to jam on new stuff with me. Matt was more introverted but a leader all the same. Tim and Zulu were very nice guys, but at the time I could tell they were focused more on school then music. I was a big fan and had been inspired by Bold when I started Beyond. I saw them the day they evolved from Crippled Youth to Bold and bought the 7”. I still love it. I was really into the compilation stuff like “Wise Up” and “Talk Is Cheap.” I know that there is a photo of me and Kevin from Beyond singing along the stage at CBGB’s with Matt before I was in the band. The new songs that were made with me became the 7”. Looking Back came out years after the 7” with extra tracks from the session. Those extra tracks were past Bold songs that they wrote before I became a member, but I did all the guitars on them andLooking Back. The 7” featured mostly Matt and me on bass. OnLooking Back Tim came in and put down his bass. The recording is bad. We went to Baby Monster Studios. The guy who recorded it even erased all my tracks because he was on dope. In retrospect, I wish we had just hit Don Fury’s. We wanted to try and be different. I heard something Prong did there and thought it would be good. I guess it was like Bold’sChung King Can Suck It. At the time they were focused on school and getting into college, so I bet they had pressure from their parents. I was like, “To hell with school, I’m into playing,” and Drew was the same. Matt was able to keep it together. Zulu and Tim didn’t write any or play on the sessions of the 7”. Tim went back later and did bass.  

 BOLD s/t 7" EP 1989 Revelation Records

MATT WARNKE:  Tom had only been in the band for like six months. I want to say he joined the band in fall 1988. I think in the back of Drew's mind he had the idea that high school was ending, we weren’t sure what everyone was going to do, the band might break up, so let's at least do one last record where we do something different. At the time I didn't know the band was breaking up. Maybe I wouldn't have had the same energy or optimism about the whole record. I remember Zulu getting back from spring break. He and Tim went to Mexico, so they weren't involved in the recording and I played him the stuff that Tom, Drew, and I did. We were in his car and put the tape in the tape deck and he didn't believe me. He said, “This isn't you guys.” 

 TIM BROOKS: I didn’t even know about the recording. Tom started playing with us. That Beyond demo… he was one of the best guitarists to come out of the scene at that time. He was very cocky and he had every right to be. As high schoolers, our interests were varied and me and Zulu and some friends had planned on going to Mexico for spring break for five or six days. It was planned months ahead of time and there was never any discussion about any new recordings. I guess Drew had been meeting up with Tom and writing stuff and I had no idea. When I got back from my trip, I think Matt was a little upset, but if there was ever any decision to be made between music and going on a trip, I would have picked music. I got back the Monday after spring break and Matt handed me this cassette and said, “You might want to take a listen to this.” I listened to it and I thought it was awesome, but I was really upset I wasn’t part of the process. I got super bummed out and Zulu got really mad and didn’t want anything else to do with the band. That was kind of the final nail in the coffin for him. I mean, we were the weaker musicians in the band. Drew was a great drummer and Matt was a proficient enough guitar player to write all those songs, but he was nothing like Tom. He handed me the tape and it had all theLooking Back tracks on it. Matt said they were going to go in and mix it the following weekend. Instead of just saying “screw this,” I wanted to be a part of the album and record on the songs I knew. Tom played on “Hateful,” Matt played bass on “Running Like Thieves,” Matt on “You're the Friend,” and Tom on “Today We Live.” Those were all awesome and I couldn’t top those performances. It wasn't an option for me to learn them in time to play them, so I just went in and re-recorded “Speak Out,” “Always Try,” and “Looking Back.” Those were all the ones we had worked on and messed around with at practice before. I went in by myself and overdubbed those, paid for it myself, and then went in for the mixing session. Ultimately, I don’t know if it was a power move or if it was just because they were the newer songs and more progressive, but the songs that I played on weren’t used for the 7”. I got angry and made a point to learn everything to show them that I was going to go on this tour and I wanted to be a part of that record. The weird thing about the photos… It was set up in New York, and Matt told me about it and I had planned to go, but the day of the shoot I had an AP Biology exam. I asked Matt if we could reschedule and he said no, it was the only day, so I couldn't go. It was a bummer, but to this day, except for one show with Crippled Youth and the shows I didn't play on the return trip home from the ’89 tour—I had to fly home to start college and Howie played bass and Sammy played drums—I never missed any other shows. 

 DREW THOMAS:I think if Zulu or Tim played on that last record it would have been a hell of a lot different because it was really just me, Matt, and Tom writing and playing it. Zulu and Tim had a regression at that time. They kinda pulled back into high school mode at that time, whereas the three of us were trying to have a musical mind frame and push things. I don’t think it would have worked with them involved. We kinda pushed them out of it. Those guys went on vacation or some dumbass shit or something, so we just planned the recording and it worked itself out. For Tom it worked because it was all him on guitar—nobody was really there to clog anything up from him, so he was able to be creative and go for it. I’m really happy with that record and what I think it did for the hardcore sound. Years later playing with Into Another, I saw bands playing some stuff that I thought was influenced by that record. I could be wrong, but that’s what I seemed to hear, kind of a progressive sound. For hardcore at the time, I think we were a little ahead of the curve and it was a little weird, but things caught up. It’s not a tight record—I’m sloppy, and the recording isn’t great—but I think we were still in an era of crappy recordings. We didn’t really have access to the big crazy production. That wasn’t our thing. People think that you could get a big produced record, and even though hardcore and crossover bands on Combat Core and Rock Hotel and whatever did it a few years before us, it wasn’t that easy and it wasn’t cheap. And really, we didn’t care. We were just kids who wanted to play hardcore—we didn’t care about the slickness or click tracks or anything professional that came later. We just wanted to play it raw. 

 WALTER SCHREIFELS: To me, the SSD and DYS rock records just seemed like misguided attempts at something, maybe they revealed that these bands were really rock and roll kids at heart. They kind of pulled the veil off in some way. I never really gave those records a chance, they might be great. I was taught to not even consider them. I know when I was really intensely into hardcore, I didn’t care about other types of music or at least didn't want to hear SSD’s attempt at AC/DC or whatever. But with Bold, I didn’t feel like they were trying to be some big rock band. It didn’t come off that way to me. It just sounded like these dudes making music that moved them and not being too concerned with what people thought. You had bands like Uniform Choice doing that as well, but I don't think the results were as good. With Uniform Choice, it struck me as just looking for a bigger audience. And maybe Bold were too, but it just didn't strike me that way. It seemed more genuine to me and that’s what I liked about it. Knowing them, that seemed to be where their heads were at. 

 TIM BROOKS: I remember that fall, Matt sent me something about the EP inThe Village Voice. Occasionally they published what record stores’ top twenty sales were and the Bold EP was like right behind David Bowie in sales. 

 WALTER SCHREIFELS: When the 7” came out, it was fucking awesome. It was rock, but it was also aggressive and had leanings towards something like Verbal Assault. The lyrics were great—it got more personal and got further away from the crew mentality from what I remember. They took a leap. They progressed and people seemed to like it. I liked all the songs, and they were playing them on that summer tour. Porcell played guitar on that tour. That might have been one of the down sides—they had a revolving door of members near the end. Drew was only there for the first half and Tim left early. Sammy started playing drums, and it ended up with Matt and Tom being the only core members left. It was getting mercurial, but the music was really good.

Revelation Records tour schedule 1989

HOWIE WALLEN: I got to roadie on that ’89 tour and it was great. I was hanging out with Walter a lot. I was there for the recording ofStart Today, stuff like that, just palling around with those guys a lot. I really didn't know the guys in Bold. I knew Tom Capone from Beyond and I knew Drew a little bit, but I remember being at a CB’s matinee and me, Drew, and Arthur from Gorilla Biscuits went to get pizza in between bands, and they were planning their tour and he said, “You know, you should come on tour with us and be our roadie.” Drew just kind of brought it up. Like I said, I was more of a fringe guy, not really in the inner circle, but I said I would be interested and he said he would run it by the guys. Later Jay Anarchy, who was friends with those guys—he went on tour with Youth of Today and stuff—he was telling me, “You have to go, it’s gonna be amazing, you'll have the time of your life!" and just talking it up. He played a big part in convincing me to go. Drew talked to everyone and they said OK, so I went along. Originally I went just as a roadie, that was it. For me, being a roadie was great. Travel around the country and go to hardcore shows, hang out with my friends, this is awesome. And I have to say to this day, not to take anything away from anything else I've done, but it's still one of the best times I've ever had in my life. The most fun. I think it was a combination of the era, the scene at the time, and the group of guys that I went with. Everything clicked and it was just really fun. 

 TOM CAPONE: Beyond was over at this point and I did the 7” with Bold. The summer of 1989 was the Bold tour after the 7” came out. After the tour, Bold broke up. It was after the 1989 tour that I was trying to start a new band. Walter and I first did Moondog, then Quicksand. 

 WALTER SCHREIFELS: This was the first Gorilla Biscuits tour, and I remember there was some hold up withStart Today.Start Today came out for the first time around the last two days of tour, so we were basically touring off the 7”. I think we played Buffalo and kids knew every word and the record had just come out a few days before, it was incredible. 

 HOWIE WALLEN: I can’t recall exactly when it happened, but shortly before we left, it was known that Tim wasn’t going to be able to do the whole tour and I was going to finish out the tour on bass. We never went into details about it, I never practiced with the band until we were out in California and practiced in Mike Madrid’s garage a few times. I knew the songs from hearing them, but I really just winged it. The last show we played was in Buffalo, and they decided they wanted to do Crippled Youth songs because it was their last show, so before the show out in the van we went over two or three songs and played them that night. I didn’t have a bass, so I used Matt's bass from Judge because we were on tour together and he let me use his. 

 WALTER SCHREIFELS: That tour was great. It was just like our whole crew out on the road together and people liked it and accepted it.